From: fanf2@cam.ac.uk (Tony Finch)
Newsgroups: alt.humor.best-of-usenet
Subject: [alt.fan.pratchett] Re: *I* Ekkstians
Date: 4 Dec 1996 08:56:53 +0100
Subject: Re: *I* Ekkstians
From: Gideon_Hallett@3mail.3Com.com (Gideon Hallett)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pratchett
On 13 Nov 1996 04:57:35 GMT, jhughes@hardy.ocs.mq.edu.au (Johnathan
Geoffrey HUGHES) wrote:
>
>Well, depends what you mean by forced. Since Evangelical Christianity is by
>definition a choice, how can you be forced to become a Christian?
>[fx: CLANGGGGGG!]
>
It's called "peer pressure", "majorities making the rules" and "social
intolerance". So yes, you do have a choice in some of the more remote
communities _not_ to become a Christian. It's just that you are then
vulnerable to the collected vituperations of the community in the case
of an intolerant community.
To use a more extreme example, there is no physical force that
attaches abas and veils to women in Kabul. It's just the fact that
they get pistolwhipped if they don't. They still have a choice.
>Excerpt from the Student Life training on evangelism:
>"Successful evangelism is when a person has been brought to the point where
>they can make an *informed choice* to ACCEPT or REJECT the claims of Jesus."
>So, as a Christian, I heartily agree!
Fine, I reject it wholesale. I respect that you believe, and you're
welcome to, as long as your beliefs are not in any way imposed on me.
For my part, I would never inflict my beliefs on anyone else[1].
>
>: I rather like it - I'm with Gideon on this one.
>From my viewpoint, I'd say that a world with no possibility of a heaven is
>not a place I'd like to be, since this world as it is leaves a bit to be
>desired! :-)
>
Exactly - so why not change it? It could be a hell of a lot better
than it is.
>BTW, as a side issue, I have always found it hard to take the Beatles
>seriously after having been taught to play Bass and guitar correctly, and
>then having watched them in video clips doing everything my teacher tells me
>not to . . .
You're missing the point. I don't think any of the great "bands" have
been really virtuoso (with a few exceptions). It's not what any sort
of music is about. What it is about is emotional communication, the
expression of a mood or a place or a time. What the Beatles had was
that they could express themselves well, they had a good open texture
to their music and they could set an audience on fire.
>[runs screaming from the hundreds of Beatles fans . .]
Millions, more like. There still hasn't been a band to touch them
since, even if they weren't as original as Jimi or the Velvets.
Gideon.
[1] Vaguely Pythonesque image popped up. Scene: a front door. Two men
in sober suits ring the bell. Middle aged housewife answers.
Housewife (HW) 'Ello? Who are you?
Suit 1(S1) We've come to talk to you about Jesus.
HW: Why? What's 'e done?
Suit 2(S2): Jesus. _The_ Jesus. The Son of God.
HW: Oh. That Jesus.
S1: Have you ever considered the possibility that he might not exist?
S2: That you have been manipulated by a cynical and uncaring
organization out for your money?
HW: 'Ere, you're not Communists are you?
S1: No, madam, we're atheists. We're from the Liberal Atheist Movement
for the Putting Off Of Nasty Shackles. Or LAMPOONS for short. We've
come to free you of your fetters. Don't you find it a considerable
burden to go to church every Sunday when you could be sleeping?
S2: Or reading a book on philosophy?
S1: Or painting a work of art? And don't you find it a continual
strain donating money to the collection plate, especially with
Christmas coming up and 17 kids to feed.
HW: But I 'aven't got any kids!
S2: But maybe you would have had money to had you not donated all of
it to the Church?
S1: Isn't it a continual burden washing the altar steps and organising
the church cleaning rota. And what evidence do you have that he
exists?
HW: Werl, there's that Bible.
S1: A book written by any number of human beings and translated
countless times. It's hardly the same book any more. As the language
changes, so the original gets diluted a bit more. It's now 2000 years
old.
S2: And one of the better known authors was allegedly either insane or
fond of psychedelic mushrooms.
S1: Would you live your life by gibberish that's centuries old?
HW: And the Vicar 'e's a nice bloke. And it's not true about them
choirboys, neither.
S1: We're not saying he isn't. Or, in the case of your neighbouring
parish, she isn't. But does any one human have the right to lecture
any other on moral grounds?
HW: Werl, there's that Mrs. Pepperpot down the road. She's no better
than she ought to be. She even asked me why I was a Christian!
S1: Why _are_ you a Christian, Mrs Scroggins?
HW: Why shouldn't I be? Me dad was, me grandad was. Wouldn't be right
for me to be different. Besides, when I die, I got a seat reserved in
Heaven. What can your lot give me after I die?
S2: Well, we can give you good advice now. It's a _bad_ idea to hang
around when there's a gas leak.
*BOOOOOOM*
S2 : These things happen. Don't sweat
it...
S1: MRS. SCROGGINS? WE HAVE SOME GOOD
NEWS AND SOME BAD NEWS...
.....Hmmm, this is veering dangerously close to fanfic.....Must be
just about one of the longest single footnotes ever, too ;)